Carl Joseph-Black: What's going on folks?

Welcome back to Due Dilly.

I'm Carl Joseph Black.

We talking about stable coins, global
team Building and infrastructure.

Today.

, Part of the reason why we're talking
about it, especially at this juncture,

is because we believe that teams
are becoming ever more global.

When it comes to.

Finding talent.

We used to be restricted to
the area where we lived, right?

But today, more and more, especially
as more folks across the world

get online, , you'll be able to
find talent wherever you want.

Companies are starting to
take huge advantage of this.

What they're starting to do is.

Hire remote workers in India, hire
remote workers, , in Africa, hire

remote workers in Europe, south America.

, But what we continuously find is that
creators themselves, , still hire locally.

They still form teams
locally, which is cool.

, But what we wanted to do today is let
you know that the infrastructure exists

where you can hire teams globally.

And a big push, or a big reason
why that infrastructure is here

today is because it's stable coins.

I, so what's up John?

Jonathan Jackson: What's good?

I'm happy to be here.

It's gonna be a great episode.

, I think the thing I'm interested in
and talking about is that as the pace

of technology increases, the cost of
building new technology goes down.

There can be a.

deluge of information about what to
do, how to do it, and so this is an

episode where we're less focused on
kind of the headlines and more focused

on what are the practical applications.

Of a set of technologies and what can it
mean for creators who wanna build teams

for people who already have teams and
for people who are trying to actually

build larger operations, , and people
who are trying to make sure that they

can grow their businesses or their craft.

So I'm excited about this one.

'cause a lot, there's a lot to
get into and a lot to learn.

Carl Joseph-Black: So for me, I.

Think a big part of this really has
to start with the Genius Act, right?

So the Genius Act, , basically created
the government regulatory structure.

For stable coins to actually be
in a real interesting way, stable.

, For those who aren't familiar with stable
coins, , they're a type of cryptocurrency.

, And these are not the types of
cryptocurrencies that you buy

to speculate and invest with.

These are the types of cryptocurrencies
that you literally use to transact

with, and the reason why they're
called stable coins is because

they do not appreciate and value.

They stay fixed at a particular
price., The stable coins that

we're going to focus on today are
what they call USD stable coins.

Stable coins that are supposed to
be denominated in US dollar value.

And the reason why they're called
stable coins is because they are

literally pegged to the US dollar.

So one stable coin will always
be $1 point blame period.

And the reason why this is really
exciting to us, , is because we

all know the value of crypto.

For those who don't know,
necessarily know the value of crypto.

Part of the use case or the value
base that's associated with crypto

is the fact that anyone across the
world can transact with crypto so

long as the technology exists, , in
their respective jurisdictions

or in their respective regions.

When we're thinking about , crypto is more
or less a peer-to-peer platform that runs

on what they call a blockchain, right?

, So stable coins themselves also
get to connect peer-to-peer.

, And with that connection, with that
peer-to-peer connection, you can send

money to basically anyone, so long
as they're, they have a wallet that's

connected to the blockchain now.

Before the Genius Act, stable
coins were the , wild west.

, They existed.

, They were basically used as a way for
basically people to realize revenue

or realize gains on their crypto
without having to deal with the

risk of that asset value going down.

So let's say if you bought.

Some other cryptocurrency that did really
well, but you didn't necessarily want

to turn that to the US dollars yet.

What you just did is you took that and
you put that in a stable coin, right?

, And now you have that fixed amount
sitting there without worrying about

the value of that coin losing, , losing.

So now what we've done is the
Genius Act has effectively codified

stable coins as a class of assets.

And the beauty of that actually, what that
does for the end user is it ensures that.

The companies that are
providing that, right?

The companies that are providing stable
coins in the marketplace actually have

to follow certain regulations and have
to, and we have to ensure that those.

Stable coins that they do issue
are all pegged to the US dollar.

To give an example of how stable coins
went wrong previously is that, , there

was a stable coin that was called Luna.

And basically people used to put all their
money in this stable coin called Luna.

, And this was during the time
when it was unregulated.

And effectively what ended up happening
was, . The company, Luna did not have

enough assets to actually peg their stable
coins that they were offering at a dollar.

They were saying, Hey, your stable
coin is $1, but they didn't have

the assets to back , that's the,
just the clear explanation of

the situation that happened.

So as a result, , market participants
saw that Luna didn't have the

assets to back up the stable coins.

They shorted it.

The stable coins lost immense value,
and those who were holding the

stable coins, which were supposed
to be fixed in value, actually

lost a significant amount of money.

The company went bankrupt and,
, they were subject to a bunch of

investigations, lawsuits, , and the
regulators, the SEC went after them.

So what the Genius Act did, because
there was a lot of speculation around

this and what people were going to
do next, what the Federal Reserve

was gonna do next, , what government
regulators was gonna do next.

Some folks, , speculated that the
Federal Reserve itself would create

its own coin, what they call Fed coin.

, And at that coin would be the
stable coin and it would be, , but.

The issue a lot of folks had with that
particular, , structure is that , the

whole idea of cryptocurrency is that
it's supposed to be decentralized.

So if the federal government
creates a stable coin and it's.

The federal government says we're the
ones backing this stable coin, then is

cryptocurrency, is the stable coin itself,
does that live up to the cryptocurrency

ethos, and does that actually mean
it's decentralized, but the Genius

act in its own right actually allows.

Private market participants to
issue stable coins so long as

they're following the rules and
regulations of the Genius Act.

And that's great 'cause one, you can have
a bunch of different stablecoin issuers,

but also two, you have the, , backing
of the federal government in case any

of these stablecoin issuers don't meet
the requirements of the Genius Act.

. Now from a global context,
this actually just means that

anyone who's using the same USD.

Stable coin issuer, you
can transact with them.

So if you're, say, if you're using
USD coin or USDC or USDC, UH, or, or

USD Tether and that other particular
individual accepts that, then you

can, interestingly enough, just.

Send your money to them, whether
they're in Nigeria, whether they're in

Brazil, you can simply send it to them
directly without having to worry about

the traditional structures that exist.

, The traditional financial
institution structure that exists,

the traditional banking rails.

And I guess John, I'll let you go into
that a little bit more, , for folks.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, so I think again.

The reason that this is really important
is traditionally the hardest part of

the creative ecosystem sometimes isn't
the work it's actually getting paid.

And so if you've ever freelanced or
you've ever been on a contract before,

you know you can deliver the work and
then, it might be a net 15, a net 30.

And there can be payment issues.

So you can have a bad client, there
could be a banking issue, there

could be an outage, there could be a,
, somebody misspells the account info.

There's so many different things
administratively that happens

that affect the ability for
someone to earn consistency.

And so if you think about the need
for cash flow to be persistent and

consistent payment infrastructure
becomes , really important.

Traditionally, the way that
people receive and, , exchange

money is through bank, right?

So if I pay you, and let's say you
can, , receive to your bank, I get your

banking info, you send me an invoice,
whether it be a PayPal or through

Stripe, and the money is remitted, right?

If I use a card, it might
take a little longer.

There's probably a fee
associated if I use an account.

Maybe it'll get there in
one to three business days.

Maybe it's three to five.

So on and so forth.

In those transactions though,
typically the person moving the

money will take a fee, so that is
actually part of the business model.

PayPal takes a fee, Stripe takes a fee.

Gumroad takes a fee.

Patreon takes a fee.

Substack takes a fee That's actually
core to their business, right?

They actually make money off
fees, which is why they need

to continue to grow users.

What stable coins.

Allows and is very dangerous as it
were, is that you don't have to pay

the fee from the intermediary anymore.

You actually can pay the fee to
send, and that's the only fee.

So in this same example, if I'm
paying a videographer in USDC.

I would have to pay the cost of
transferring on the rails and that's it.

'cause I can send it directly to them.

And so that's often
called a burn fee, right?

So it's burning to send to them.

That fee is remarkably lower than any
other fee I would pay with a bank.

And because it's pegged to the
dollar, that person can take that

USDC and actually translate it.

Into fiat or currency, whether
they want it to be dollars or

shillings or anything else.

And that to me is the power of being able
to work globally and have it be borderless

because you don't have to always
depend on your banking relationship.

That's not to say you shouldn't have a
banking relationship, but it is to say

that there are unique ways to continue
to receive money and to send money out.

Carl Joseph-Black: It's interesting
because part of the reason why,

, especially as a former banker, like part
of the reason why these things take so

long is because the way, , financial
institutions communicate with each other

is through what they call order books or,
, what they call, , transfer books, right?

So the way it typically
operates is your bank.

Your bank that you're sending money
to receives a request for you to

send money, they then send that.

They then receive that request, and
then what they do is they contact the

other bank to identify the account
that you're trying to send money

to if that account exists, and then
they communicate with that particular

end user to identify whether they're
actually trying to receive that amount.

Then in the middle of that process is
what they call clearinghouse or what

they call a clearer, and that person
basically clears that transaction.

And typically, , there are different.

There are different regulatory
entities or sometimes private

market participants that basically
play a role in doing the clearing.

And , what we basically used to call
'em is just clearinghouse, right?

Bank of New York Mellon has a clearer, a
clearing product, what they call Pershing.

, The.

, Stock market itself has its
own particular clearinghouse.

, So part of the reason why sending money
also required all of these fees is because

all these financial institutions were
doing the work of contacting each other

to basically process these transactions.

And that's the reason why these
transactions always had to

occur by business day because.

Both financial institutions had
to be open that day in order to

communicate with each other regarding
that particular transaction.

Now with stable coin, all of
those participants are basically

completely removed from the process
and everything is simply tracked

now on a chain that is viewable and
trackable by every person on the.

Every person who has access to the chain.

And that's basically everybody.

So the, what you're doing now
is instead of connecting through

accounts, you're connecting
through wallets and your wallet.

Each wallet has a particular code and
that code it in its own right is unique

to you and it's encrypted, and you
only get to see that encrypted code.

And from there, that's how you're
communicating with each other.

The beautiful thing about it is I.
Because these aren't institutions.

There is no business day.

Everything's open 24 hours
a day, seven days a week.

, Now of course there are
some risks with that, right?

Make sure that you get the
wallet address correct.

, Because if you send it to
the wrong wallet address.

You're unable to get
that money back, right?

It's not like your bank where you send
your money to the wrong person, they

just simply replenish your account.

There is no institution in the
middle, so as a result of that, you

can't necessarily get that back.

But, , beyond , that's the reason why the
fees are cost so much less, and that's

the reason why things can be done much
efficient, so much more efficiently now.

For me, the reason why this became
a , really interesting thing and

something that I felt like we should
talk with the audience about is

because me , as a business owner and
as a person who transacts with people

overseas, like it was always a headache.

You know what I'm saying?

Like even back in the day, like if I
had to send money to Haiti, like I had

to go to Western Union, fill out all
the paperwork, then I would have to,

call that person using, , a calling
card that gave me, . The international

Minutes to tell 'em that I sent it
and then they would have to then walk

like whatever, 10, 20 miles to their
Western Union and their country to them.

They had to bring their, what, whatever
form of identification they had to then

go there and then pick up the money.

And even in more recent times, I'd
say even as recent as last month,

I have, , I have a client overseas.

I have a client in London.

And in order for me to receive funds
from them, I had to send them a bunch.

I had to send them my account
information and all of that.

But they also requested certain codes that
like don't even exist in the US system.

So I had to tell them like, yo, we
don't even, our banking rails don't

even have these types of codes.

But my hope is that.

We could do this, but as a banker, because
I knew about Swift Codes, I was able

to just simply give 'em my swift code.

But I'm thinking about like ordinary
folks who aren't bankers, right?

Those folks don't know about
Swift codes, so they're just like,

yo, just PayPal me or whatever.

And then,, PayPal's going to eat a chunk
off, or XY Z's going to eat a chunk off.

And all of that can actually be
relieved if you can, , put a wallet

together and communicate with.

Your client or vendor overseas
and tell 'em to do the same.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, I also
think that, , even in talking about,

thinking about yourself as a business
or as operating a business, thinking

through how you're gonna get paid.

Or pay other people is just as
important as what you're selling.

And because a lot of the products
people are building and selling are

digital, you don't actually have to only
receive payment in the traditional ways.

And so I think what's happening is that
the friction of using a traditional bank,

it doesn't necessarily always work with
the speed of how people are purchasing.

And that's what makes stable
coins really interesting because.

I think about two types of cringe, right?

There's like the cringe of being early,
and then there's the cringe of being late.

And so you see this
with like trends, right?

Like fashion is really big on this.

You have someone who's like, why is
anyone, why would anyone wear that?

Then it comes mainstreamed, and
then it falls out of the window

of cool, and people are like,
Ooh, you're still doing that.

I don't know.

And so technology has that same kind of,

. Pendulum.

There's like people who are early adopters
who are in the space, building in the

space, and then you have consumers.

You see this with Cha GBT, right?

Which is now, again, because it's
popularized, it has become a noun.

This was not a noun three years ago.

It was an actual technology,
nonprofit startup product that you

needed an actual invite code for.

And then it became a consumer good.

Then it became a natural part of how
consumers were thinking businesses started

to commercially use it and integrate it.

And now it is a norm.

Carl Joseph-Black: It's like
the, , it's like the, , Overton

10 window Yeah of things.

Jonathan Jackson: Correct.

So stable coins because it's intrinsic
to how we interact as people.

'cause we've been trading
for thousands of years.

How we've traded, what has
counted as valuable has changed.

But the need to interact at a
peer level has never gone away.

So how we are going to
do that in the future?

There is gonna be new
innovations and advancements.

But the other thing that's interesting is
more people are unbanked than are banked.

When I say unbanked, it's that they
are not essentially recognized.

As people who are transacting in what
we see or call the former economy.

And so what a stable coin opportunity
infrastructure does is that it actually

done well, can integrate people
thoughtfully into the economic system

in a way that wasn't always possible.

And there's really big
implications for that, right?

It's like , how do you engage on
buying something, buying a house,

buying a car if you have no credit?

You can have a bunch of cash, but
if I, how do I verify who you are?

How do I verify the identity?

How do I verify where the
payment is coming from?

And this keeps people from actually
moving forward in parts of their life,

not for doing anything wrong, but
because the system is not recognizing

the actual consistency they have.

Blockchain is interesting because
anything that happens goes on a ledger

and that ledger is publicly accessible.

And so if you can identify me
with what I've done, you can

have my transaction history.

We are, in my opinion, moving towards
an environment where that actually could

be an indicator of your credibility,
how you've transacted, where you've

transacted, but it can still be anonymous.

But since it's one-to-one, I as a person
can look at your ledger and be like, how

have they been interacting with people?

So you could put a
technology layer on that.

You could build on top of that.

There's all kinds of things you could do,
but the other possibility and the exciting

part is that part of the hard, one of the
hardest things about building a business

is consistently getting paid on time.

And then the hardest part of
freelancing is making sure your client

actually can pay within the windows.

And so this actually means that now we
know that the payment went through and

I know I received it, and . There's an
opportunity for a higher form of trust

and the capital not being stopped because
there's a banking issue or because there

was something that someone couldn't see.

And so there's obviously risks.

There's obviously onboarding and learning.

But I also think in this kind of
environment, we have new challenges.

So there are new solutions and new
opportunities, , to think about how

to remain competitive, especially
in this global marketplace.

My, I have a cousin in Trinidad and
I remember sending him Western Union

and it took two weeks to figure
out if he even got the money right.

And Western Union is one of the
biggest global exchange businesses.

They're everywhere.

Everywhere.

And they had a monopoly for a really long
time, and they charge exorbitant fees

like Western Union is hitting you over the
head to send money domestically in the us.

Forget internationally, right?

Because you have foreign exchange.

So there's a currency ladder.

And so that's the other part about,
if you're in an environment where

your currency might be experiencing,
. Deflation or you're dealing with

volatility, being able to transact with
something pegged to a currency that's

not is actually a competitive advantage.

And then if you're looking for
global talent, being able to pay

them in the currency you're already
operating in is also an advantage.

And then finding each other in
the middle creates a really unique

opportunity to expand the kind
of collaboration that's possible.

Which is why I think we're even talking
about this because it's if we're talking

about the creator economy and we're
talking about people building stuff and

how to build stuff and how to collaborate
and how to do it with your friends,

it's like people do need to get paid and
people should be getting paid on time

and it should be easy to pay people.

And for a really long time it
has been really difficult to pay

people and it's not because think
people just wanna pay people.

It's because the way the internet works.

Is sometimes faster than the way the
technology you need to interact that or

to interact with that is being built.

So there's like more
problems than solutions.

And so now we have an interesting solution
that has become mainstream because of

policy that was early five or six years
ago that is now becoming normalized.

So you have companies like Visa.

You have large banks actually
integrating custody holdings for crypto.

You've got JP Morgan staking Bitcoin,
so you've got like actual commercial

adoption, which is going to, I think
over time, enable consumers to be

engaging in crypto without the weight
of having to be like, what is it?

Am I doing it right?

And so the idea of
dissipating some of the fear.

Also thinking about , unique
ways to utilize it.

Carl Joseph-Black: Yeah.

Especially when it comes to, , visa.

Big shout out to Ka Sheffield, who's like
the head of crypto at Visa, who's been

like, just over the last few years, just
thinking about all the different ways to

integrate cryptocurrency, to make it a.

Consumer friendly, low lift,
frictionless way to adopt your

way into the space, right?

Like we're talking about visas like.

Card that is connected with crypto
accounts, um, all the different types of

products that not only on the consumer
side, but also from an infrastructure

side that they've just been really focused
on to kind of make sure that folks kind

of get on these blockchain rails so that
they can expand out the like peer-to-peer.

Platform, you know, um, in terms of,
you know, this Overton window and, you

know, visa playing a role in leading it.

Um, also Stripe and many other
companies now are starting to

really integrate, um, stable coins
into their platforms so that the.

Their users can not only accept payments
in stable coins, but also can remit

or send payments in stable coins.

And if you're a Stripe user, all you gotta
do is log in and be on Stripe Connect.

And once you get on Stripe Connect,
like you're able to actually use

stable coins from there, um, and
you can convert the money that's in

your account into a certain amount
of stable coins that you'd like to

use, you, you automatically have a.

Wallet that works on the blockchain rails
that's connected to your Stripe account.

And then from there you're like shipping
money left and right using stable coins.

So , if you're creative
with a Stripe store, right?

Or if you're using Stripe for any part
of your payments, which many businesses

and creators of different types are
using, like you actually can start today.

. But there's a bunch of other
products that are out there.

And the way I view it is it's the
same way that many of the financial

institutions like adopted Zelle, right?

, And how they've been using Zelle
for instant payments, right?

I believe that the financial institutions
are going to use the Genius Act to be

able to do the same, where it's like
you're gonna have your Zelle option and

then you're gonna have your stable coin
option, whichever, whatever they're

gonna decide to call the product, but.

They're gonna just simply
just adopt folks on.

And I think that's going to be
like the big changer for all , big

game changer for all of us.

'cause , for me there's gonna be
institutionally tied stable coin

products and then there's going to
be stable coin products that are

just from stablecoin issuers that
aren't connected to any institution.

They're just playing a role on
the peer-to-peer standpoint.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, I think the
freedom to pick your own adventure

of, maybe the way that you bank is
gonna be updated to how you want

to structure your business, or
if you want to take international

clients and it can be a headache.

You might actually just
be able to contractually.

Solidify how you want to be paid, and
then also on the onboard people onto that.

And so that's another interesting
opportunity is to create new ways to

receive the money you were already gonna
have and then engage people that way.

And I, I believe that there's a
really unique moment to experiment.

, I think sometimes new technology is scary.

It's . You hear how complicated
something is, and there is this idea

of a, a fallacy of complexity, which
simply means that oftentimes the idea

of something being complex is because
people are not, have not done the work

to have an opinion, to explain it simply.

Something simple can also be
difficult, but that doesn't

mean you can't understand it.

It just might take some
time to implement it.

But I think that's one of the things
that you know we wanna do here on the

pod, is to talk about something that.

It sounds complicated, but is something
you've seen before, but this is just

a different format or something you've
heard about that you're using every day.

This is just a different
use case for that thing.

Um, and so I think that that's part of
the fun that can come from this is that

people talk about collaboration and
meeting people and doing stuff and wanting

to grow, and this is one of those ways to
go global, is to think about how you want

to pay people and how you want to receive

payment.

And then having a collaborative
ecosystem in which to do that.

And the other side of this is
that if you think about how long

traditionally it might take to see
money show up in your account, the

sort of immediacy of something like
this changes the way you can work.

So it changes the idea of right
having a video editor in Sao Paulo.

Having a motion graphic designer
in Johannesburg and then having a,,

copywriter in Mexico City and you're in
New York, essentially, you can pay all

of those people for the same fee would
cost if you were just sending a wire.

And that's actually pretty transformative
because it means you can spend less time

doing admin and more time doing the work.

The people that you're transacting
with can actually get what

they need to do the work.

And I, I just think that's a
different sort of way to build.

, And I think that's to me really
exciting about when we talk about

distribution, when we talk about
collaboration, we talk about

operations and we talk about payment.

Those are the building blocks
of how you make something

that's mobile and how you work.

Over time and across borders with people.

And so that, that's part of, there's
a lot of talented people, but the

challenge is usually something that I
find has less to do with the work and

more to do with, how people can manage
their value in this kind of environment.

And I think this is one of those ways to
be thoughtful about it, but also have a

competitive advantage honestly, to be able
to actually work with people no matter

where they are, uh, and to reach them.

So.

Carl Joseph-Black: What's, what I find
also interesting too, that we haven't

really touched on yet, is the fact
that it actually like allows a person

to also simply like go
overseas, physically, and do

work much more efficiently.

Like I think about, , me, so like last
year I spent a month in Brazil, , and.

Nobody had Cash app.

They have this thing they call picks
and picks is basically like very

similar to , Africa's version of Mpesa.

Where it's a peer-to-peer network, , all
based off of the country's phone number.

So you have to actually have
a Brazilian phone number in

order to like even be on picks.

. But I got, I got a plus one on my joint.

I got a US number, so I
couldn't even get on picks.

And then picks is also connected
to, , bank of Republic, Brazil.

So it's connected to, the
two largest banks and.

In Brazil, so I couldn't transact
with nobody unless I used my card and

I couldn't even use my debit card.

I had to use my credit card.

Right.

Um, and.

Sure.

That's awesome.

But if I wanted to hit the ATM
to get cash, could be able,

wouldn't be able to do that.

And now if I'm transacting with somebody
on the street, let's say I'm trying to

buy, you know, a, like, I can't even
do that unless I have my card on me.

But the thing is with a card,
like you're swiping your card and

it into somebody's card reader.

, Obviously there's some risk there, right?

Like you don't know what that person's
gonna do with that particular information.

You might never see that person again,
but like that person just had your card

information read on their device, right?

So now for me, I'm thinking about it
now, like with stable coins, if I'm

pulling up with my Stripe account or
if I'm pulling up with, , if I'm using.

, Coinbase for my stable coins, right?

So long as we're all operating
on the same rails or operating

on the same blockchain, right?

I can simply do that peer-to-peer
transaction in person, so long

as I have cell phone service.

So if you're actually saying, Hey,
me and my team in the us, let's say

Due Dilly for example, we taking Due
Dilly out to South Africa, right?

But we want to actually
do a full film production.

We actually don't have to go
and get South African Rand.

We actually just can transact in USDC
and pay all of the people that we hire.

So all we have to do is find talent
before we even arrive in South Africa.

Link up with them.

Issue payments all
through the phone, right?

I don't have to download any new
program or download a new app

or get connected with some local
platform that South Africa uses.

I could just use USDC and I
think that completely changes

the game from a travel aspect.

'cause of course, like as a creator,
you're thinking about putting

these huge structures together
so that you can film and create.

Something that you wanna put online,
but also from the simple perspective of

traveling, it's just like, yo, let me
just load up my USDC account and then.

Get on a plane.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And that's a completely, different game.

Um, when you're thinking about it,
it becomes completely frictionless

to travel across the world.

And we're seeing it every day, like
folks are traveling, more, folks are

deciding to live in other places more.

And part of the difficulty of living
somewhere is actually being able to

have access to financial institutions.

Like in Brazil, you can't even
get a bank account without having.

A CPF, which is basically a, um,
which is a Brazilian, like federal id.

Right.

But you can't get a Brazilian federal
ID unless you are a resident alien

or, , an actual citizen there, right?

Like you gotta actually have
a visa to open a bank account.

Right.

And I'm sure other countries have.

Similar or, or different structures, but
just in order to simply bank somewhere,

like that entire process has been
simplified by these stable coin products.

And that's part of the reason why this
whole thing is revolutionary for me.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah.

I, I believe that there's a, people
are interested in sovereignty, right?

Like personally, , and then creatively
and . When you are thinking about how to

build something of your own and something
with other people, how you're able to

move through the world and be recognized
financially is really important.

'cause it has implications
for your ability to live and

to move around an ecosystem.

That you may be new to or
you may want to enter into.

And these things all take time, right?

Becoming a resident anywhere
is a process, right?

You have to prove who you are.

You have to prove what you're doing.

You have to show, , usually some
form of financial stability.

And or consistency.

And that doesn't matter
where you are in the world.

There has to be some form
of sharing that goes on.

, And previously in this
kind of environment.

The bet was, at least in the case
of something like Western Union,

that , people moving money would always
want a trusted intermediary, and that

intermediary would be a person and then
it would be a physical place that you go.

And for hundreds of years
that was normalized, right?

You find Western unions in the
most remote locations on Earth.

It's because they have a network that is
interconnected and you find this with,

correspondent banks or places that are
building their own financial ecosystems.

And so this is actually
a very distinctive layer.

For some people to be like, okay,
here, how do we welcome more people in?

It's an opportunity for others who are
like, oh, I like how this is frictionless.

How do I build something on top of this
for people who might not ever want to know

how deeply it works, but want to use it?

And so that's like, how do you
build technology on top of that?

It's companies like mfi, which lets you
legitimately just transact and actually

send money for little to no fees.

To, I think over a hundred
different countries.

And so it's like now I have
more optionality, right?

I can use Pioneer or Remitly or PHI or
sling money or any number of other things.

And so now the consumer has an
abundance of choice and previously

they had an abundance of challenges,
but they didn't know their options.

And so that's actually the interesting
business opportunity is if you're

building in financial technology.

It's like the core consumer has a
lot of options, but the question

is why would they use your option?

And that's like the same
thing in the creator economy.

It's , I could hire a bunch
of videographers, so why you?

And so some of that actually comes down
to like I'm easy to work with and being

easy to work with is like I have a system
by which, here's how I take payment.

You do this thing, no problem.

And then you send it and we get started.

That's actually like the
difference between us working

together and me being like, ah,

'cause there might be someone else.

, And so I think that's also, I don't
know, something I'm thinking about

is like, how not , you should always
take your work seriously, but it

should never be hard to pay you.

And I think sometimes it's actually
harder to, I've seen situations where it's

harder to pay the person who does great
work, and that's a terrible experience.

, That's a reason to not
work together actually.

'cause like now we're, you're
making it hard for me to give

you the thing I want to give you.

Or , on the flip side, it's hard
for someone to trust you when it

doesn't look like you have your
actual backend together so you can

make the best work in the world.

But you haven't simplified
the ease of payment.

And I think this is one of those
ways to like, you know, you wanna

do long, you wanna play long-term
games with long-term people.

And one of the ways you can do that is
making sure your system's actually, to

the extent you can mitigate friction.

This is a competitive advantage.

Carl Joseph-Black: That's a fact.

, And for the folks who are
like, who are into the weeds

or want to really think about.

You know how the infrastructure of
these things work, , so there's a bunch

of different blockchains, but the main
real blockchains in terms of what people

are building USDC products on top of
are Ethereum, polygon, and Solana.

So you can send A-U-S-T-C product
on each particular blockchain,

but you cannot send it.

Cross chain.

So you can't send, , A-U-S-D-C product
or USDC stable coin from Ethereum

to a Solana USDC chain, right?

Or if you have an Ethereum wallet,
you can't send it to a Solana wallet.

, If you try to do that, your
money's gonna get lost.

It's, it's a dump.

, So one of the things that
you are gonna want to know.

Is literally which blockchain is that
particular person's wallet connected

to, and each person will know, right?

Because there'll be a particular
brand symbol associated with that.

But, , part of the reason why that
is, is because each particular

blockchain is recording the
transaction on their ledger, right?

, So since they're recording it on
their ledger, , you can't have it

cross to a different chain because
that chain is not recording that

ledger activity on its own chain.

, So that's for the folks who kind of wanna.

Understand , the, , technical
mechanics of this thing, but.

I do think that over time folks are gonna
also figure out a way to, , simplify that,

whether it's allowing chains to become
cross chain at some point, or if it's that

from the user experience side, whichever
product it is, it's just gonna be like

these like sub buttons that are gonna just
give you a symbol and say, Hey, , make

sure that you do it from the right one.

. And I guess the best way to compare.

A chain, right?

What a chain is.

It's , I guess the best way to
compare it is by saying, Hey, , I'm

using this particular bank, right?

, I'm using these particular rails
versus these other rails, right?

, Because , there's.

There's, at least so far in this
space, there's a limited set

of blockchains that are really
building heavily in USDC products.

I think that's gonna, that
limited set is gonna help prevent.

A bunch of mistakes, but I guess
we'll see what happens, right?

, Because these products are now available
and they're gonna see that, , more

folks are gonna be using 'em, maybe
more people are gonna be using 'em,

maybe more people are gonna try to
create more efficient chains, right?

So that's yet to be seen, but.

But I think the structure is not as
complex as we think, even when you think

about it from a very technical standpoint.

What I would say is that so far the,
, the engineering pioneers have done a

phenomenal job of setting up the rails
that we're about to start working on.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah.

I guess the thing I would say is I.

Be mindful of things that are presented
as complex, that are simple when you

take away the language people use.

And even for us in this episode,
, it's really important to talk about

this as what problem does it solve?

Not what new issues does it create?

And so the problem that
this helps solve is it is.

Very challenging to move
money across borders, period.

This new opportunity with stable
coins, especially for creators, can

allow over time less friction, which
means that payment can come with more

consistency and it can go where it
needs to go, and there are things being

built around that and towards that.

But the other part is that it
can enable deeper collaboration.

In places that you want to go and people
you want to work with that perhaps

are not part of a traditional banking
system, but can have a wallet because

they have an internet connection.

And so if they have a wallet and
they are on the same chain as you

are, it means you can pay them.

And that also means that depending
on how you pay them, they can

actually take that money and
open a bank account because that.

Coin can be actually
translated into fiat money.

And that's really important because
that means that you've now opened

up a whole new set of opportunities.

And so to me, that's actually probably
one of the most powerful things that I'd

like to communicate is that I think the
way to think about any new technology

or innovation is how big is the problem?

Not how cool does it look?

And I think , that's really the.

, The core, the heart of this is thinking
through new ways to actually get paid

more consistently and with more clarity.

Carl Joseph-Black: I also think
too, , because , you could get paid

overseas much easier and you could
pay more people overseas easier.

You could also move product overseas.

Much easier, like

, Very interesting comparison.

But screw it, I'm gonna go with it.

If you was in a drug trade,
it'd be so easy now to go

and set up OP in a new spot.

And the reason why it's so easy to
go over there and set up is because.

What used to be a huge ocean, and
that huge ocean is, hey, turning your

currency into local currency has become
extremely difficult to do, right?

So now that entire process is over.

So now like when you're thinking about
that perspective, it's , okay, not only

can I reach these new people and pay them,
but can I get them to buy my product?

And if you can do that, then now
you have an entire new group of

people to scale your business from.

Right?

Most folks are thinking
about selling products to.

Local folks.

Most folks are like, all right, how
do I sell products to my friends?

How do I sell products to my neighborhood?

How do I sell products to
other folks in my state?

Maybe now we're thinking bigger
in terms of selling product to

folks across the country, right?

But yo, the entire globe is your oyster.

And if it is that, then.

You should probably go find
the rest of your audience.

You should probably go and find the
rest of your consumers because they

can easily pay for your product.

With Stablecoin,

you don't have to worry about.

Currency conversions, banking issues.

Because if somebody can pay for your
product using Stripe on in Brooklyn,

on Facebook, then somebody can also
with the Stablecoin product on Stripe,

also pay for your product in Nigeria.

So really it's can you get
your product in front of them?

That's really the name of the game.

, And as a result, I think for creators.

Now distribution completely changes.

How do you execute distribution
properly to make sure that you're

tapped in with the full scope of
your audience instead of, , this

localized scope of your audience?

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, I agree.

I think that

it is not a question of traditional
finance versus decentralized finance.

It's how do they work together?

And how are you?

The same way you think about an audience.

It's who are you serving, what
are you serving them with,

and how do you work with them?

And how can you show up consistently in
the same way across a variety of places?

So I think that's the opportunity
here, is to explore, learn about

it and see how it can actually
apply to the business you have.

And maybe that's
simply , I'm actually gonna.

Engage paying people this way,
or I'm gonna actually make this

an option to receive payment.

And that might actually transition how
you think about what's possible and who

it's possible to do those things with.

Carl Joseph-Black: Yeah,, I think that's
enough to pack , this episode, bro.

, I'm Carl.

This is Jonathan.

Don't follow me, don't
follow Jon, don't follow us.

Just follow the money.

The British Narrator: Due Dilly is
researched and hosted by Carl Joseph Black

and Jonathan Jackson, audio engineering
and camera operation by Wolf Taylor.

Video editing by Sean Ferra and
Stefan Lawrence Illustration

and design by the Duro Arts.

Filmed on location at WTF Media
Studios in New York City, and I'm

your reliable British narrator.

Born and raised in South London.

For deeper insights and context,
visit duethedilly.com That's

D-U-E-T-H-E-D-I-L-L y.com.

See you next time.